Kidney Stones and a Vegan Diet
Question:
I am 19 years old and I get chronic kidney stones. I have had over 30 or so (I lost count). I have been vegetarian for over a year and vegan for four or so months. I cannot eat high oxalate foods which is confusing because they are the healthy foods I am supposed to eat while being vegan! I drink three liters of water a day and barely eat any foods high in sodium. Once I became vegan I got more stones (having to pass them). It went from every two months to once a month to every two weeks. I really want to stay vegan because I know how much healthier it is but I cannot deal with all of this pain. Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I have gone to a urologist but she hasn’t given me any helpful information and right now I am just so frustrated I want to give up. So please help!
Answer:
Assuming your stones are oxalate stones, I would say that doing two things could help:
1. As it sounds like you’re doing, avoid the high-oxalate vegetables ‒ spinach, swiss chard, and beet greens. Kale, broccoli, collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, and bok choy should all be safe. According to the Mayo Clinic, you should also limit or avoid rhubarb, beets, okra, sweet potatoes, nuts, tea, chocolate and soy products. Yikes – that’s no fun. But maybe if you cut them all out, you could then slowly add back in small amounts of nuts and soy products and see if they are safe for you.
2. Consider a calcium supplement with meals. Calcium can bind oxalates and cause them to be excreted in your feces, but you should ask your doctor about this before doing it. Here is some more info on this:
mayoclinic.com/health/kidney-stones/ds00282/dsection=prevention
Follow-up:
I am mainly concerned that with all these restrictions I will not be able to receive all the essential nutrients I will need. I eat mostly nuts and beans to receive protein and those are some things I can’t eat.
Answer:
Have you seen ohf.org/docs/Oxalate2008.pdf
It lists beans as being moderately high in oxalates. I would think that you could eat small amounts of beans without it being a problem.
Unfortunately, it looks like quinoa (a non-legume, non-nut source of vegan protein) is high in oxalates:
August 11th, 2012 at 9:17 am
How about a vegan protein powder like hemp? Not sure about the oxalate levels though.
August 11th, 2012 at 9:28 am
You know, this article linked below outlines how the health argument fails veganism. But it really fails animals. Animals are the concern here.
http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/how-the-health-argument-fails-veganism.html
This 19 year old wrote, “I really want to stay vegan because I know how much healthier”. It’s plain to see that it’s not healthy for him. It’s good for me, for you, but not him.
The vegan diet as the healthiest diet for all, no such diet exists. For this 19 year old, it’s not working for him. He needs to work with a nutritionist who has ONLY his client’s health concerns at heart. Even if that means eating meat, eggs, and dairy. This man should not suffer.
August 11th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
It’s so important for you to get the latest, clear info on studies about protein in the diet. Read “The China Study.” It is the best start to getting clear on what the human body needs to use to encourage it’s own healthy activity. Most of our body’s healthy activity is self induced. We need energy and to be active. Stop eating the known bad actors to begin with. Watch Dr. Robert Morse’s videos and get into fruit and juices. Watch some of Liferegenerator’s videos. There are enough to keep you busy learning about juicing for a long time. Clean the body of excess proteins and calciums. You’ll be ok. Keep going, don’t give up. You can do it.
August 13th, 2012 at 8:10 am
I’m vegan and I’ve had recurring kidney stones too. My doc put me on postassium citrate, which is supposed to make an “inhospitable environment” for kidney stones. Is this something his doc has discussed?
August 13th, 2012 at 8:29 am
“He needs to work with a nutritionist who has ONLY his client’s health concerns at heart. ”
He says that he really wants to remain vegan, so he needs to work with a nutritionist who respects that and at least attempts to design a low oxalate vegan diet for him. For many committed vegans, consuming meat, dairy and eggs could create great stress, and thus negatively affect health. There are a variety of low oxalate plant foods. I would think a competent nutritionist could create, and fine tine, a special vegan diet for this man to meet all his nutrtional needs.
August 13th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Just fyi, the person is a woman, not a man.
August 13th, 2012 at 8:40 am
She only indicates that the reason she is vegan and wants to remain so because it’s the “healthiest’ diet. She says nothing of animals. “I really want to stay vegan because I know how much healthier it is but I cannot deal with all of this pain.” In her case she should eat what she needs to eat to not be in pain. Many vegans for animals would do ANYTHING to not consume animals, even if that means limiting their food choices severely, this person does not appear to be one of them.
August 13th, 2012 at 8:58 am
Ginny has someone on her blog comments doing it:
Hi. My doctor did not give me a specific number; he provided me a list (which came from a company that has a dedicated RN who’s worked with oxalate diets for years) and advised me to avoid any food in the ‘high’ category. As the list was geared toward a general omnivore, I did hours of research of my own. There are some protein sources that are OK, especially lentils, garbanzos, and black-eyed peas, and I’ve been finding a variety of ways to cook them. I also do a non-GMO pea protein isolate. However, I’m always looking for additional options.
Thanks for your help. http://www.theveganrd.com/2011/01/vegan-food-guide-protein-and-new-book.html
August 13th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Christina, keep in mind that this person had the kidney stone problem for years before becomming vegan. Also, I think you are mis-interpreting Ginny’s blog post. She is in no way discouraging a vegan diet. Also, it doesn’t say anywhere in there that an optimal diet includes eating meat. If there was NO other way for the woman here with kidney stones to be healthy without meat, then I would agree with you, but I would call that a last resort option. Many people who like to call themselves “doctors” easily fall back on this flawed argument that you somehow need meat to be heatlhy, and “prescribe” meat eating, when what they really need to be doing is prescribing a vegan diet for every other patient they see.
August 13th, 2012 at 10:04 am
Magnesium deficiency
The only reason my mother is thriving after being diagnosed with brain cancer and not dying from it in November last year is because we did our own research and experimentation. Her primary care MD, who was sure she’d be dead for her January checkup, saw her last week. He is so amazed that he wants to work with the Filipino doctor my mother is using. For all of 50 bucks this Filipino MD designed a treatment that has made her amazingly better, and there was no chemo, puking, or suffering involved.
I say this because I noticed with the cancer sufferers and others with painful or fear inducing diseases or health issues, which is relative to the person, that they have trouble (as is expected) seeing the other side of it.
Low magnesium is common among kidney stone sufferers. Many people who have recurring kidney stones have benefited by taking Magnesium citrate powder and not even adjusting their respective diets. Mom takes Natural Calm. There’s types of Magnesium that are more or less bioavailable, this one is made from magnesium citrate.
There’s a book that is recommended at the clinic where my mom gets IV glutathione: The Magnesium Factor. This book covers how it helps treat and cure many people from kidney stones among many other things.
This is from a 1967 study:
Harvard researchers found that taking 180 mg of magnesium along with 10 mg of vitamin B6 daily reduced stone formation by 92.3 percent per year! Another study showed about a 90 percent reduction with magnesium alone (500 mg daily).
Link: http://www.ajcn.org/content/20/5/393
POTASSIUM-MAGNESIUM CITRATE IS AN EFFECTIVE PROPHYLAXIS AGAINST RECURRENT CALCIUM OXALATE NEPHROLITHIASIS
New calculi formed in 63.6% of subjects receiving placebo and in 12.9% of subjects receiving potassium-magnesium citrate. When compared with placebo, the relative risk of treatment failure for potassium-magnesium citrate was 0.16 (95% confidence interval 0.05 to 0.46). potassium-magnesium citrate had a statistically significant effect (relative risk 0.10, 95% confidence interval 0.03 to 0.36) even after adjustment for possible confounders, including age, pretreatment calculous event rate and urinary biochemical abnormalities.
http://www.jurology.com/article/PIIS0022534701681552/abstract
August 13th, 2012 at 10:30 am
If vegans were to follow Jack’s advice on higher protein, his recommendations for vitamin D (or higher), and B12 of course, plus adding fat and cooking certain vegetables in that fat, then many issues from the vegan diet could be avoided. Unfortunately the authority on the vegan diet fallen to those who don’t even think B12 is important and fringe nut jobs who harm animals with their cult behavior. As far as being the healthiest diet for all, no such diet exists. From my own experience, it’s been dandy for me, but some people can’t hack it for whatever reason. I remember reading The China Study in 05 and re: B12, don’t bother taking a supplement is essentially the message. So I stopped taking it. Right around the same time I met Howard Lyman who said he also doesn’t take a supplement. I take one now! Fortunately I have a Red Star Nutritional Yeast addiction, so I didn’t have issues.
August 13th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
LynnCS,
I just reread the pages on kidney stones in The China Study. It is basically arguing that animal protein is the cause of most kidney stones. In the case of the person in question, who went vegan and had their rate of stones increase, I do not think The China Study has much to offer.
August 17th, 2012 at 7:12 am
She was only vegan for four months. I’m not doctor, but were those stones already there and now she’s passing them?
She didn’t say vegan was the “healthiest” diet, you are misquoting her! She said “healthier”. Not the same.
August 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am
Donna,
Good question. I just found this great resource from The Cleveland Clinic: Online Health Chat with Dr. Manoj Monga, Kidney Stones: Your Questions Answered.
At the very end, Dr. Monga says, “The “life” of a kidney stone is highly variable. I have seen large stones (3-4 cm) form within three months. On the other hand, many stones form over the course of years, and may never pass.”
Another thing Dr. Monga mentions is that high sodium intake can cause kidney stones.
September 25th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
I am following a low oxalate, low fat, vegan diet for RA and microscopic colitis (low fat vegan immediately helped my MC but after two years my RA got much worse, after much experimenting I figured out I was reacting to oxalates). This is how I do it: 1. join the yahoo group “trying low oxalates” they have all sorts of resources including a very up to date spreadsheet with hundreds, maybe thousands of foods and food products listed they have tested (other lists on internet are not always reliable. 2. White rice, usually a health no-no but this is my low oxalate staple to get enough calories. 3. to the white rice I add small amounts of low oxalate legumes like black eyed peas, pigeon peas, red lentils (I don’t tolerate the latter but they are low oxalate). 4. I eat lots of low oxalate veggies like squash, and cabbage, bok choy, etc. 5. I eat a couple of pieces of low oxalate fruit per day too (usually at breakfast with rice). I hope all this helps.
November 7th, 2012 at 7:42 am
Thanks for all of the posts! I’m interested in learning more about kidney stones and vegans if anyone is willing to talk!
January 9th, 2013 at 6:55 pm
I have some good news for you. There is another natural food ‘cure’ that will help to prevent new kidney stones. The solution is to drink a glass of orange juice daily. I found this story online and then went searching for the JASN (Clinical Journal of the American Society of Nephrology) to see if it was real or just wishful thinking.
Most people know about drinking lemon juice in water to help reduce stone formation. The study was done with two groups, one group drank lemon juice, the other group drank orange juice. The results were that lemon juice didn’t work because the digestion process interfered with the citrate’s beneficial effects and was not at all effective. But the group that drank orange juice daily actually showed reduced formation of new stones. They say it’s due to the potassium in the orage juice.
The links:
The online story I found:
Keep Kidney Stones Away With Orange Juice, Not Lemonade
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/50980.php
The actual CJASN journal report mentioned in the story (was not published the same month as mentioned in that story, it was later): http://cjasn.asnjournals.org/content/1/6/1269.full
Also, Dr. Julian Whitaker mentions using magnesium and Vitamin B6 as his regimen for avoiding his tendency to form new kidney stones.
His site link: http://www.drwhitaker.com/magnesium-for-kidney-stones
Good luck, I need it too.
March 2nd, 2013 at 1:36 pm
I have read somewhere, I vaguely remember, that drinking too much water washes
out something that may lead to or exacerbate kidney stones (in some people). Also, Steve Jobs had painful kidney stones and he was vegan (and evidently fruitarianish for a number of years) – not only omnivores/meat eaters get kidney stones (as you pointed out the China Study indicates). Jobs’ kidney stone situation was what allowed doctors to discover his pancreatic cancer.
March 15th, 2013 at 1:38 pm
I had to remove “You could also eat seitan which is made from wheat which is very high in protein and low in oxalates,” from the post above. I may have been wrong on both accounts. Since various breads are low in oxalates, according the PDF linked to above, I must have assumed seitan would also be relatively low. That was not a good assumption. In looking today, I couldn’t verify the amount of oxalates in seitan, vital wheat gluten, or wheat gluten.